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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:52 am 
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Kill@ I think that all of the cheating scandals in GO are a perfect example of just how strong the competition scene is. Will they have to increase their efforts to ensure a level playing field moving forward? Sure, but the lengths players and teams are willing to go in order to gain an edge tells you how alive it is. I don't necessarily agree with Dem@n, at least in the sense that I think if the full release goes well the competitive scene for AA could cultivate a 3 tier league with open, inter and invite, which to me is the best part of online gaming. Join a team, grow with the team, challenge yourself, win, move up, repeat. I don't think there needs to be a huge competitive scene in order for the game to have success, it just needs to be large enough to maintain that model. You might even call it the sweet spot as players will be less likely to go to great lengths to win when money and sponsorships aren't on the line.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:56 am 
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Don't know where it says you must have 100 teams to be recognized as a competitive game. CS even before all the drama was a competitive game? lol depends how you look at it . I can say it wasn't due to the fact that it's always the same ~3 teams in the end playing for the championship.

1st esl test cup we have 20 teams sign up..you think that can't be considered competitive? Sad thing is I know so many more teams that could join. This game right now could easily do 30+ teams if it wasn't for their attitudes and this "ohh the games just not competitive enough to sign up" . Ya thanks for helping out!

For anyone thats half decent comp is the only thing going for this game right now, because we all know pub is boring as hell.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:24 am 
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=IK=Doba= wrote:

For anyone thats half decent comp is the only thing going for this game right now, because we all know pub is boring as hell.


+1. Self-actualization.

I can't enjoy a casual game for more than 300 hours. (I took 3 breaks from AAPG already.) Honestly, wasn't it the intention in the beginning to create/support the comp scene officially -- so I hear from rumors -- but that got shot down b/c of some unknown reason (perhaps the beta group thought there was no purpose in it?).

If you randomly select pvp multiplayer games, the most popular ones will have a thriving comp scene. This isn't just a pure coincidence. Reverse casuality issues aside, the game DEVs fully support/promote their games as a comp game (active strategy).


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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:10 am 
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uni-sol wrote:
sooo.. how do all you comp guys go about finding potential fresh blood for your teams, or promote more teams to sign up for competitions, when your assuming everyone playing in them are pub jones, try hards.. headless chickens with 0 skill, who (going by what your all saying) aint got a clue?

by all means have and keep them attitudes, im sure this game will fair 0.1% better for it. kudos.

your all exactly right when you say pub play is not as team orientated as comp and yes indeedy thats why there is a big difference in the two types of play, no disputing that fact. i get that in a pub your playing a mixed bunch of people of various skill levels, of whom half the time dont communicate. so i think in that respect you comp folk cant deal with it, right? i mean, you have no way of telling who is going to be where, there is no structure or anticipation of player positions.. there is no pre-determined "i know where he is going to be" or exacting strategy involved. THIS i can only assume is where them attitudes stem from.

may i be so bold to think you guys dont like pub play simply because you dont know how to cope in that environment? its too random and as you guys say yourselves, random is bad for comp which literally forces you to play the game in a way that sees you act in such manners, others in the pub server are not helping you be 'the best' so you can no longer 'feel' the best :lol:

you crave unity and teamwork when you play, no harm in that, but nobody is here calling you out for playing like that.. so is it fair that you guys do it all the time, to people on the pub side of the fence? who believe it or not, are playing because they enjoy FPS that are inherently ALL competitive in nature, regardless of who they play with/against, wether or not they communicate, run around like rambo's.. or just plain suck at playing. we all just want to have some fun, to pass time while playing a video game. also, who knows that pub jones halfwitted new player, who TK'd you by accident with a grenade he aint yet learned to throw properly.. may one day even own you at comp level. whos laughing at who then? newly adopting a stupid anti-pub player attitude, that you passed down to him, therefore spreading the disease.

years ago you could get noticed by clans when playing in public servers and enjoy a game, nowadays everyones calling everyone allsorts for the sole intention of belittling and acting like some sort of virtual gaming god.

whatever happened to respect for fellow man and maturity?


so far one of the best comments i read on this forum.There are random factors teams playing on pub servers don't have control over that influences the outcome,factors you will never have in a 4v4 setup while playing without handicaps like players from all around the world with different skill levels and ping,so it's easyer to showe it off as unimportant.

=IK=Doba= wrote:
Don't know where it says you must have 100 teams to be recognized as a competitive game. CS even before all the drama was a competitive game? lol depends how you look at it . I can say it wasn't due to the fact that it's always the same ~3 teams in the end playing for the championship.


Those championships are played in arenas in front of thousands of people with millions watching the stream at home this was built starting from 15 + years ago with that goal in mind.Unlike this game,that is played on cardboard maps without Anti cheat tool on your computer at home with unlocked ini's oh and it's still a BETA made with the purpouse to advertise the US military and recruit potential soldiers interested in it.

=IK=Doba= wrote:
1st esl test cup we have 20 teams sign up..you think that can't be considered competitive? Sad thing is I know so many more teams that could join. This game right now could easily do 30+ teams if it wasn't for their attitudes and this "ohh the games just not competitive enough to sign up" . Ya thanks for helping out!


Maybe your insulting attitude is keeping them away or the way competition players act on public servers,dunno just an idea.


=IK=Doba= wrote:
For anyone thats half decent comp is the only thing going for this game right now, because we all know pub is boring as hell.


wich brings us back to the original theme of this topic.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:45 am 
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I don't care if the games are played inside madison square gardens if it's always the same teams in the end how competitive is that?

Attitude? There is respect among the comp community we support each other. We don't have respect for teams the run their mouth and guns vs newbs and when asked to step up they make excuses!!

how does the fact, that the game is boring bring it back on topic..? which is team stacking.!.. how you .ek guys aren't bored after all this time of playing newbs after newbs is really beyond me

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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:13 am 
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I hope that one day we can actually get along without the annoying prejudice

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Last edited by Sonfour on Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:34 am 
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Play comp! (support this game, only way it will grow)....play against each other like everyone else and we can be friends !! Friends with a :)

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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:36 am 
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=IK=Doba= wrote:
Play comp! (support this game, only way it will grow)....play against each other like everyone else and we can be friends !! Friends with a :)

I play competition, I am in a competitive team and we want to play against you
I was asked to make drafts for the AA:PG daily website for EU and NA playing together
I needed instruction on how to start it all of initially but that never happened

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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:59 am 
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=IK=Doba= wrote:
I don't care if the games are played inside madison square gardens if it's always the same teams in the end how competitive is that?


Two points --

1) Well, it's not really always the same teams in CS. 10 different teams have reached semifinals in the 5 major events. 10 teams for 20 slots isn't bad as far as variety goes. Only 1 team (NiP) has reached semis in all 5 majors -- they actually made it to finals all 5 times, yet only have 1 championship. 5 events, 4 different champion teams. Sounds like variety to me.

Besides, compare to powerhouse teams in other major sporting events -- SF Giants in MLB, for example, have won 3 of the last 5 championships, but there's much more depth as you move from pro leagues to AAA teams all the way down to Little League. Somewhat similarly, comp sites like CEVO have Professional, Main, Intermediate, and Amateur series. The volatility in rankings varies based on where you're looking. Remember how I said 10 teams occupied 20 slots in CS semifinals for the last 5 majors? In MLB, 11 teams occupy the 20 slots for the last 5 ALCS+NLCS finals.



It's kind of like saying Ice Hockey isn't competitive because the Olympic finals are always some combo of USA, Canada, Russia (32 finals appearances; rest of the world: 14). It ignores the rest of the competitions going on.

The competitive aspect is deeper than "How much can the top teams dominate?"


2) Whether a game is "competitive" involves questions like "What is the value of player skill and choice?"

Let's look at checkers, because it's a fun case study. In the 1863 World Championship of Checkers (who knew, right?), 40 games were played. All 40 games were a draw. In 2007, computers finally proved that optimal play guaranteed a draw. I'd say Checkers can no longer be called a competitive game -- at very least for the top levels of play.

How about Connect 4? First player can guarantee a win with correct play. In fact, if the first move is made randomly and both players make optimal choices from then on, I can tell you who will win based on that first move alone. It's also a solved game.

Code:
Legend
"X" --> X (Eques, First Player) Wins after the indicated Move
"O" --> O (Knott, Second Player) Wins after the indicated Move
"=" --> Drawn Game after the indicated Move

- - - -  Move  - - - -
a   b   c   d   e   f   g
-------------------------
O   O   =   X   =   O   O     X's First Move

X   O   O   O   X   O   X     1 A1     O's Response
X   =   O   =   X   X   X     1 B1   
X   X   =   =   =   =   X     1 C1    
X   X   X   X   X   X   X     1 D1


Regardless of how popular those games should become, there's an inherent skill ceiling, a limit on how good anybody can be.

With a "competitive" FPS, there aren't necessarily "optimal" moves and strategies. As an example, I don't like the map Bridge because I think it's a basically guaranteed win for defense. (Compare to being player 1 in Connect 4; you can still lose if you make a big mistake, but it's a pretty major blunder.) Who wins is less about strategy or player skill than built-in advantages inherent to one side.



Anyway. I've rambled enough. I don't think you can judge whether a game is "competitive" based solely on who's playing it.


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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:36 am 
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yeah I was waiting for that BC :P

So out of all the players/clans (and I'm sure there are a s### load) in that game I still think its always the same small group .. yes just like any other sport! youre right... and same thing can be said for AA (thats my point)

A small list of NA teams that play/ed this game and could compete for championship:

iog
i9
inv
2K2S
jcp
nx - lol

Thats almost the same number of teams that have a good chance of winning as CS :P .. we also have/had a good number of teams that CAN upset at anytime.

Hence... this game can be played competitively, and I could name a few more solid teams that haven't played in comp yet, and if they did it would be even better.

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