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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:22 am 
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animatics wrote:
BCPull wrote:
(...) animatics -- I sent the Devs the whitepaper on the cool algorithm the GR:Phantoms research consultants developed that aims to "maximize fun" (as opposed to "maximize balance"). They looked at it, at least :) I've also posted info on the forums in the past on a method for estimating player skill using a similar approach. No idea if they'd ever run with any of those kinds of techniques, though. (...)

(...) I'm holding on to the hope that they'll create an incentive for strong players to join the weaker side. (...)


Great! With all the offtopic I missed the juice of the replies x) What's maximizing the fun vs maximizing the balance?

The second point would be ok to avoid the fuss of stats, but I think its made invalid by being an incentive. That doesn't motivate anyone, especially those that know they are tilting the table a lot and keep going. Plus in AA there's really not many incentives. Honor? Achievements? Nothing really.

Thanks for stopping by.


Their paper covered "How can we set up our matchmaking system to make games as fun as possible?"

One example they gave: fill up both teams with players that never leave spawn and camp long-range spots with sniper rifles. You'll have perfect game balance since nobody's advancing and capturing anything, but nobody's having much fun either since they're not getting any kills.

Each player had various traits calculated (skill, the way they play, etc etc etc). It all got plugged into their model. It predicted how balanced the match would be with each player on each team. They asked players after each match "How much fun did you have?". Once they had a bunch of data on how fun various combinations of player types were, they changed their model: instead of trying to make teams even, try to set up teams so that everybody would report the most fun at the end.

Cool part: it worked! Players reported those games as more fun.


Re: incentives -- remember that things are changing with full release. Player customization options (gun + optic skins) create new opportunities. I'd also say there are many players that would gladly join a strong team and pad their stats; raising honor level, winning, and everything else definitely affect player behavior.


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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:27 am 
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I wonder how that takes into account players that want to play together (i.e. a group of 8 players in a 12v12 environment, for instance).

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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:39 am 
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animatics wrote:
So beat it comptard. You're the one making noise and providing 0. Pub is the game, comp is an apendix. Try to have AA without pub.
"Stop whining" about "whining", "deal with it". No one cares about your skill, score or ego. Oh and instruct your clan members to not teamkill people in pubs at spawn because they aren't happy someone else picked up sniper. Appreciated


I'm sorry what are you providing besides the wambulance?

Thanks for informing me that Pubbing takes place.. because I got to 30 honor how?

I play pub everyday (most days), and I just don't see this being an issue, do I see games go 8-0? ya sure.. so what, it happens.. it even happens with good players on the losing team, does that mean they must automatically start a new thread every time they go 8-0 about team stacking?

No magical formula is going to work, realize that.

again.. this isn't a game issue, its an .ek clan issue! because I don't see any other clan feeding off bottom end new players.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:03 pm 
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.sauce wrote:
I wonder how that takes into account players that want to play together (i.e. a group of 8 players in a 12v12 environment, for instance).


I don't recall details for their specific system. Generally, you lump the group together as an added constraint and balance around the parties.

In some cases, it can mean a longer time for a matchmaking service to pair you while it waits to find a similarly-strong group.

In AAPG's model, it'd probably be easier to automate the team-join process rather than the server-join process. In that case, those 8 would go to one side, the next 8 assignments would be drawn from the remaining player pool for the other team, and balancing could finish from there.

Unfortunately, without a party system or good clan tag system, there's not a simple way to identify who should be kept together. A string similarity index on leading characters might be a good start, but ... well, it'd be an interesting problem to solve.


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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:05 pm 
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=IK=Doba= wrote:
animatics wrote:
So beat it comptard. You're the one making noise and providing 0. Pub is the game, comp is an apendix. Try to have AA without pub.
"Stop whining" about "whining", "deal with it". No one cares about your skill, score or ego. Oh and instruct your clan members to not teamkill people in pubs at spawn because they aren't happy someone else picked up sniper. Appreciated


I'm sorry what are you providing besides the wambulance?

Thanks for informing me that Pubbing takes place.. because I got to 30 honor how?

I play pub everyday (most days), and I just don't see this being an issue, do I see games go 8-0? ya sure.. so what, it happens.. it even happens with good players on the losing team, does that mean they must automatically start a new thread every time they go 8-0 about team stacking?

No magical formula is going to work, realize that.

again.. this isn't a game issue, its an .ek clan issue! because I don't see any other clan feeding off bottom end new players.


Well Hello there Mr. bottom end new player and thanks for the publicity,think it falls in the category of naming and shaming btw but i let it pass since you have to let some steam out somewhere since it's not within your power to do it in game.I predict this topic to go 30+ pages in the next couple of week simply because of all the flame and grudges people hold for facing the real skill gap on insignificant public servers.Keep it up,got plenty of popcorn.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:25 pm 
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Dem@n wrote:


Well Hello there Mr. bottom end new player and thanks for the publicity,think it falls in the category of naming and shaming btw but i let it pass since you have to let some steam out somewhere since it's not within your power to do it in game.I predict this topic to go 30+ pages in the next couple of week simply because of all the flame and grudges people hold for facing the real skill gap on insignificant public servers.Kepp it up,got plenty of popcorn.


In case you fail to realize, which obviously you do, you guys are the joke in AA:PG.. do you not notice the screen shots in EVERY thread started about team stacking?? it consists of 5-8 .ek members on one side and low honor on the other.. this isnt news! its reality..

You think other clans don't have the man power to stack teams like you do on a regular basis? please... who are you? what have you proven? besides being a pubstar vs players that just don't get it.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:35 pm 
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=IK=Doba= wrote:
Dem@n wrote:


Well Hello there Mr. bottom end new player and thanks for the publicity,think it falls in the category of naming and shaming btw but i let it pass since you have to let some steam out somewhere since it's not within your power to do it in game.I predict this topic to go 30+ pages in the next couple of week simply because of all the flame and grudges people hold for facing the real skill gap on insignificant public servers.Kepp it up,got plenty of popcorn.


In case you fail to realize, which obviously you do, you guys are the joke in AA:PG.. do you not notice the screen shots in EVERY thread started about team stacking?? it consists of 5-8 .ek members on one side and low honor on the other.. this isnt news! its reality..

You think other clans don't have the man power to stack teams like you do on a regular basis? please... who are you? what have you proven? besides being a pubstar vs players that just don't get it.


Here we go again.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:37 pm 
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Exactly.. same crappy thread with the same initial problem! what a waste of space these threads are

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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:06 am 
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BCPull wrote:
"How much fun did you have?". Once they had a bunch of data on how fun various combinations of player types were, they changed their model: instead of trying to make teams even, try to set up teams so that everybody would report the most fun at the end.

BCPull wrote:
In some cases, it can mean a longer time for a matchmaking service to pair you while it waits to find a similarly-strong group. (...)

Unfortunately, without a party system or good clan tag system, there's not a simple way to identify who should be kept together. A string similarity index on leading characters might be a good start, but ... well, it'd be an interesting problem to solve. (...)


That indeed is something nice and I guess some type of simple surveys fits the beta testing enviorment quite well, especially if the community jolts on helping.
I didn't know it was for match making, but makes sense since it's a much more strict pairing and nothing someone can do to fix lack of balance.
So they tracked players movement for the match to get a sense of if he stayed in the same place or rushed away? Wicked...

I don't know much about what's coming next in AA:PG, I just hope it's not a massive unlock system. One thing I always appreciated was the fact AA didn't try to be RPG and just needed you to do the trainning to unlock important stuff (sure there's the 15 level cap in AA2 for SF missions, but that's terribly easy). The rest was up to you to master while you play, not to play to get more of the game.


=IK=Doba= wrote:
Exactly.. same crappy thread with the same initial problem! what a waste of space these threads are

Yeah, same type of lame posters trying to make threads they don't like as a crap battlefield for their ego, not adressing the topic, showing lack of social skills and putting forward terrible arguments that once decontructed they never admit wrong or just jump to the next offtopic... GTFO if this doesn't inrerest you, and make threads relevant to you. Bye


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 Post subject: Re: Team Stacking is still a thing...
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:59 pm 
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Sonfour calls me a n..b for making this thread. Was on our team. We where losing and with minus 1. Goes to spectator so he can join Killa in the other team and stack again and a 1 honor is move to our team... That sense of balance in a pub server...
But hey for those that really like ping. Awesome pings this time hun?

Next map, same deal, same team score.

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And after a rotation, still at it...

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