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 Post subject: Re: Ambient noise level
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:15 am 
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frankof wrote:
The paranoia in the game community is a bigger problem than the tweaks.

If a subscriber of enhancement programs tells you its "just ini tweaks" some actually believes that and goes totally off the chart in an effort to stop something that isn't there.


Mouse macro software and real hacks are confused for 'tweaks' all the time.

Ambient is fine imo. BUT Footsteps need to NOT be nerfed to the ground in release.

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 Post subject: Re: Ambient noise level
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:29 am 
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To me it's not about hearing footsteps at x distance, it's about having proper dynamics no matter how you decide to design the soundspace, and that includes your own player sounds. There should be a discernible difference between you walking, someone walking 2 feet away, 4 feet away, on the other side of an open door, on the other side of a closed door, above you, below you, etc etc etc. We have binaural listening devices so a perfectly natural 3d soundspace should be attainable with an engine that supports it (wwise). I look forward to hearing the results.

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 Post subject: Re: Ambient noise level
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:15 pm 
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So pro soundcard advantage = ok, mouse macros advantage = dirty.
I see what you did there...


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 Post subject: Re: Ambient noise level
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:59 pm 
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Geez kid, if you want marginally better sound, then get a sound card.

Sound cards basically clean up the SNR, and, depending on the game, may give some better positional awareness. They also free up your CPU a bit. Mouse macros are completely different. They use software to do the work for you....hence why they are frowned upon and sound cards are not.


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 Post subject: Re: Ambient noise level
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:06 pm 
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animatics wrote:
So pro soundcard advantage = ok, mouse macros advantage = dirty.
I see what you did there...


If you can't figure out why those two things are different it's time for some mental exercises in problem solving before you return to the discussion.

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 Post subject: Re: Ambient noise level
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:08 pm 
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EKCommander wrote:
frankof wrote:
The paranoia in the game community is a bigger problem than the tweaks.

If a subscriber of enhancement programs tells you its "just ini tweaks" some actually believes that and goes totally off the chart in an effort to stop something that isn't there.


Mouse macro software and real hacks are confused for 'tweaks' all the time.

Ambient is fine imo. BUT Footsteps need to NOT be nerfed to the ground in release.


They should raise the volume of footsteps a bit more while keeping ambient sound as is. I played with the default levels and with G930's. I think I only heard footsteps on InnerHosp and when enemy was on the opposing side of the wall. Or maybe that's the way it's supposed to be?

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 Post subject: Re: Ambient noise level
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:22 pm 
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.sauce wrote:
animatics wrote:
So pro soundcard advantage = ok, mouse macros advantage = dirty.
I see what you did there...


If you can't figure out why those two things are different it's time for some mental exercises in problem solving before you return to the discussion.


It's simple. A mouse macros costs 21€, a good sound-card between 50-100€.

And both can be taken in account in the game desing. In Hawken you can't use mouse macros. In other games you don't have advantage over other players because you have a pro sound-card.
This has nothing to do with the discussion about having better hardware for display purposes.

If the game doesn't address unfair advantage for one type of hardware I don't see why the other is painted so dirty (both are to me), so it's about price.

Lime I used to say. I'm hoping for the day nVidia releases a on-board [TOS Violation]. "It's hardware people". Doesn't mean the game design is excuse of taking that into account for purpose of balance.

io_i_oi wrote:
They should raise the volume of footsteps a bit more while keeping ambient sound as is.

You can hear them already through walls like they next to you... I know mate, pre-fabricated walls, I know, but even on ColdFront cave ;)

This whole sound sensitivity is another example of how the game revolves around tight combat, which I don't think it's the majority of combat the Army sees. Except for middle east home invasion, of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Ambient noise level
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:32 pm 
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One removes a built-in game mechanic and is artificial skill. The other is meant to reproduce the game's built-in sounds as accurately as possible.


Playing with equalizer settings gets into fuzzier territory, but I don't see it as particularly different from changing color settings on a monitor. Regardless, it's still a world apart from a low-recoil mouse macro.

+1 for .sauce & common sense


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 Post subject: Re: Ambient noise level
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:53 pm 
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BCPull this has nothing do with with quality. You can listen more with a good sound card and we both know why they were bought in AA2 era. Wasn't because someone's sudden interest of listening high fidelity music samples. It was because it improved what you could be aware of, a lot.

Actually the comparison with graphics is a bit ridiculous, as investing in a sound card improves your game more than on an uber GPU for pretty graphics, which are all turned down for competition purposes, which to me, some level of texture tweaking it's also shady, because it removes noise from the game and accentuates player movement. So please enough with the "what about better graphic card" argument. Graphics are pushed down and sound awareness up. It turns into exploting the poor game's sound design, same as a macros exploiting the fact the game didn't took it into account.
Plus! If everyone can have a mouse macros since it's cheap, it's actually more fair than some costly item only a few invest in. Plus, shooting is just the climax of gaming decisions, which are made by knowing where someone is or what is it doing. And that's common sense for you.

There's a balance issue when it comes to sound and different hardware and sidetracking is supporting that costly advantage niche. This is solved at the game design level.
I repeat there are other games that don't have this problem, neither with sound or macros. Which is worse in a game BCPull, some bug or some imbalance?

Plus this whole thing is an instance of small map mentality, had you have to run 50meters to get to some place you would be more worried about cover and firelines than menial sound problems.


Last edited by animatics on Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ambient noise level
 Post Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:16 pm 
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Sound cards don't let you hear more than your supposed to. End of story. I can hear the same with $100 stereo headphones on my ROG mobo as with my $200 sound card and $300 headphones in this game. Movies and music on the other hand have greatly improved sound stage, lower noise floor, and improved tonality (especially bass).

If you want to use on-board sound, of which different mobo manufacturers have different qualities, then don't feel like you are missing out on much in this game.


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