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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:03 pm 
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.sauce wrote:
Keebler_750 wrote:
For example, pub players are more likely to be in places they shouldn't be. I've seen guys clean out an entire area of people out of their FOV without a scan, and without the concept of 'pattern hunting.' I'm sure you know what that is...


No, actually, I don't. You have no idea what is going through a player's mind that leads to their decisions. Match after match "good players" are confronted by guys who believed they've figured them out based on the kind of subjective reasoning you've given throughout your post. That anyone is willing to accept something "different" (or success/luck as any reasonable person would put it) as proof of foul play is confusing.

Honestly, I play on ACI servers regularly and the same hackusations fly there as on the officials. My point? There is no such place where people don't mind losing to someone better than them, and there is no such thing as an anti-cheat that will alleviate the delusions of angry men.

Again, I support anti-cheat and improving anti-cheat. I don't support the super sleuth detectives who think they can eyeball cheaters- or to soften the language, players who are "different."

Agree totally, let's just say, that when it's too silent, every corner will be watched quickly, nothing suspicious about that, I just peak them one by one.

However, the people who die by it only sees me watching and killing them, they did not see that I watched all other spots as well. But they do base their judgement on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:49 pm 
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So. I'm supposed to concede every point you make because I can't possibly be good at pattern observation. Right. And how is it you get good? Ya....pattern observation. It's about building a mental database to feed your muscle memory and reaction times. Or, wait.....are you just born Awesome?

I'll just let y'all be right.

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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:39 pm 
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.sauce wrote:
Your first paragraph very openly discussed what I addressed. You have been "mortified" by the amount of hackers in this game. Did you objectively discover them? You, I'm sure, "objectively" "spent a great deal of time learning to recognize the mannerisms of hackers." I respect your desire to improve the processes of the game, I do, but don't pretend that you are objective because you honestly believe you can eyeball cheaters.


Unfortunately, it's not the subtle ones that mortify me. It's the amount of zero recoil I've been seeing. I never vote kick on my own gut feeling. I ask others to spectate and give second and third opinions, even on those who blatantly have zero recoil. And quite frankly, yes, it can be very easy to eyeball cheaters, like the ones whose aimers track names through walls across the map (making echolocation impossible).

If you don't mind me asking, why are you so adamant on keeping the countermeasures subpar?


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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:48 pm 
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OF COURSE pattern observation is how you get better. The next step is to validate those observations through the successes and failures of application. But how, exactly, do you validate your findings after you observe patterns YOU believe to suggest unfair play by someone else?

This has never, for me, been about good or bad players. As you can see in my post, I said "good players" because that has been thrown around so much and I think it's irrelevant. To me, it's a matter of accused players. Regardless of skill level, or attitude, pattern observation is NOT a fair method of cheat detection. That is all. Keebler, I know how reasonable you are, and my intention is not to cross you here. But people tend to believe they have a formula for catching cheaters through observation, and it doesn't exist. It's not a matter of quality, or of negativity, it's simply a matter of poor assumptions.

And I apologize for hijacking the thread. Good luck with improving anti-cheat and finding ways to keep the game clean grandpabear, maybe there is another way for the Army to improve fair play on the officials.

GrandpaBear wrote:
If you don't mind me asking, why are you so adamant on keeping the countermeasures subpar?


Where have I said anything even remotely close to what you are implying? Either way, I'm bowing out. Good luck, I hope you get what you want.

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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:06 am 
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GrandpaBear wrote:
.sauce wrote:
Your first paragraph very openly discussed what I addressed. You have been "mortified" by the amount of hackers in this game. Did you objectively discover them? You, I'm sure, "objectively" "spent a great deal of time learning to recognize the mannerisms of hackers." I respect your desire to improve the processes of the game, I do, but don't pretend that you are objective because you honestly believe you can eyeball cheaters.


Unfortunately, it's not the subtle ones that mortify me. It's the amount of zero recoil I've been seeing. I never vote kick on my own gut feeling. I ask others to spectate and give second and third opinions, even on those who blatantly have zero recoil. And quite frankly, yes, it can be very easy to eyeball cheaters, like the ones whose aimers track names through walls across the map (making echolocation impossible).

If you don't mind me asking, why are you so adamant on keeping the countermeasures subpar?



Bro good luck but pretty much anyone who is worth their crap knows how to control recoil lol

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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:45 am 
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GrandpaBear wrote:
.sauce wrote:
Your first paragraph very openly discussed what I addressed. You have been "mortified" by the amount of hackers in this game. Did you objectively discover them? You, I'm sure, "objectively" "spent a great deal of time learning to recognize the mannerisms of hackers." I respect your desire to improve the processes of the game, I do, but don't pretend that you are objective because you honestly believe you can eyeball cheaters.


Unfortunately, it's not the subtle ones that mortify me. It's the amount of zero recoil I've been seeing. I never vote kick on my own gut feeling. I ask others to spectate and give second and third opinions, even on those who blatantly have zero recoil. And quite frankly, yes, it can be very easy to eyeball cheaters, like the ones whose aimers track names through walls across the map (making echolocation impossible).

If you don't mind me asking, why are you so adamant on keeping the countermeasures subpar?

The answer to your latter question: Because it should not be banning innocent players because of eye-witness evidence, but no proof.

For example recoil, you do know spectator is bugged sometimes and that's why you see no recoil more often on spectate?

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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:32 pm 
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http://www.gameref.io/
http://www.polygon.com/2015/2/23/809022 ... g-cheating

Quote:
The anti-cheat device uses a deceptively simple method of comparing raw controller inputs to game behavior. If the two don't match up, the player is cheating. Game:ref is built on the open-source..


Interesting from a LAN pov.

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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:09 pm 
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OMG, high honor level is only a lot of game play time, nothing to do with skills.

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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:12 pm 
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Frigid wrote:
Bro good luck but pretty much anyone who is worth their crap knows how to control recoil lol


oh how i wish i could control.. tell that to my SAW on full auto :lol:

i cant even down and to the left proper haha!

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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:21 pm 
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Since we arrived at the conclusion that eyeballing is a legit way of catching hackers without proof now can we talk about self proclaimed pro game expert hacker hunters who stalk legit people from server to server even with second accounts to team kill them,vote kick them and talk trash without any consequence 24/7 every day and follow this pattern as a way of life style and religion instead of enjoying the game as normal people do?Honestly i meet more of these people every day than hackers and it's more annoying than i can describe with nice words.

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