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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:58 am 
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just wait until the 50+ man clan homies arrive backing up the fictions about fighting online wars against HACKERS,UNICORNS and GOBLINS who kill them on their rented servers despite passing cvar checks,PB,ACI search history,screenshots,videos and 3people spectating them non-stop and still get banned for doing so without solid proof.

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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:04 pm 
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Dem@n wrote:
just wait until the 50+ man clan homies arrive backing up the fictions about fighting online wars against HACKERS,UNICORNS and GOBLINS who kill them on their rented servers despite passing cvar checks,PB,ACI search history,screenshots,videos and 3people spectating them non-stop and still get banned for doing so without solid proof.


I think what demon is saying, there are alot of opinions from players that believe they're wise because they have been around the game longer but really we can't always trust this opinion as accurate.

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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:53 pm 
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GUYS.

Cool it, why don't we have an honest, thoughtful discussion, huh?

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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:53 pm 
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It's easy, those who are blatant cheaters will be will be figured out very easily. Those who are subtle cheaters are nearly indistinguishable from extremely talented players. So it's a wash.

Just play the game with integrity and have fun. Who cares what others do. If someone needs to cheat at an online free game to feel good about themselves then whatever.


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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:30 pm 
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.sauce wrote:
I guess my question is this: what is the difference between a REALLY good player and a less obvious hacker to you? Is that bar set by your successes and failures? By your observation? By the comments of those around you?

Dem@n wrote:
sauce has an interesting one,can i add two more question:

How many people did you accuse wrongfully during all those years in your AA adventures in various positions without solid proof just using your endless amount of experience who were dancing on the thin line between subtle hacker/really good player in your opinion and how many did you personally apologize to for doing so wrongfully.

What qualifications do you have to judge people playing online games if they are legit or not except playing this game and other fps titles for over 10 years and renting a server?How do you know about features and setting of current cheats if i may ask?


I think you two missed the point of what I'm asking for. I'm asking for objective means to identify a hacker, rather than going by gut feeling, or frustration. It has nothing to do with who's better than me, who's fishy, etc. I am not saying one person is any more qualified or outstanding than another, by time or experience, to identify hackers. Again, I am asking for a system that generates proof.

I know the features and settings of current cheats from simple online searches of current commercially available cheats. This also goes without saying that when it comes to FPS games, cheats have not changed much over the years. The cheats for AAPG have the exact same concepts as the ones for AA2.

SgtBadazz wrote:
It's easy, those who are blatant cheaters will be will be figured out very easily. Those who are subtle cheaters are nearly indistinguishable from extremely talented players. So it's a wash.

Just play the game with integrity and have fun. Who cares what others do. If someone needs to cheat at an online free game to feel good about themselves then whatever.


If you are willing to play like that, then fine. I too am willing to fail with honor than to win by cheating. But you would not go to a poker game with the same whatever attitude if you knew your opponents had aces in their sleeves. This game is going alpha soon. The developers have put a lot of hard work into making an aesthetically pleasing, challenging, team oriented game, and it would be a huge shame to have any amount of the public pass it up because of the lack of countermeasures in place to keep it fair.


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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:29 pm 
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SgtBadazz wrote:
It's easy, those who are blatant cheaters will be will be figured out very easily. Those who are subtle cheaters are nearly indistinguishable from extremely talented players. So it's a wash.

Just play the game with integrity and have fun. Who cares what others do. If someone needs to cheat at an online free game to feel good about themselves then whatever.


i agree with you. aibot on m24 is to low players.

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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:00 am 
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GrandpaBear wrote:
Background
I have played America's Army games since just after the release of AA2, and remained with the AA2 community until a few months ago, when I decided it was time to make the move forward to AAPG. I have administrated a handful of servers in the past, and have spent a great deal of time learning to recognize the mannerisms of hackers. In my last few months playing AAPG, I have been mortified by the amount of hackers (some obvious, some not) that I have come across. But what bothers me further, is how there is virtually nothing keeping them at bay.


Your first paragraph very openly discussed what I addressed. You have been "mortified" by the amount of hackers in this game. Did you objectively discover them? You, I'm sure, "objectively" "spent a great deal of time learning to recognize the mannerisms of hackers." I respect your desire to improve the processes of the game, I do, but don't pretend that you are objective because you honestly believe you can eyeball cheaters.

FWIW, the federal government isn't going to relegate control, or policing, of there servers to some 3rd party anti cheat community. The reasons are blatantly obvious, hopefully you can think about it and figure it out. Regarding screenshots, they have stood firm about not making those public too. I'm not positive as to the reasoning, maybe they don't want that information to be public and instead expect you to follow the processes they provided (abuse reports). Either way I respect your desire to keep the game clean and wish you the best of luck on the private servers that already do all of the things you ask for (just like it's always worked since 2003).

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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:57 am 
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it matters little how good or bad at the game you are, if someone is cheating, it 'shows', not just to yourself, but others on the server too. of course you will always get the players who call 'hacker' as soon as they get killed a few times by the same person but theres not a lot you can do about that sort of mindset. if i know one thing, its not exactly nice being the recipient of a hackusation, believe me.. and im certainly not the best :(

i think theres quite a difference between someone who is genuinely good (or pro) and someone who is cheating, even when sometimes they can be devilishly good at hiding it. its just that sometimes you gotta work harder and look closer to prove it and if you cant, its better to say or do nothing, if it irks at you so badly, change the scenario and find another server.

more tools and methods to fight them are always welcome, but theres always going to be a keyboard warrior ready and waiting to bust all them new things.

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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:01 pm 
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There is a noticeable difference between good map knowledge, reflexes and tactics and someone who just has something 'different' going on. It often goes with how much of a JERK they are to others with a big 'I'm better than you scum' attitude and a real psychopath mentality...they don't care what they do.

I welcome anything that can make the game a kind of place where you don't mind losing to someone truly BETTER than you, and I mean that. I want to get outplayed by a person, not a software add-on.

You good players are very sensitive to this issue because I'm sure you've been accused a lot. I get that. Doesn't mean there aren't issues here. It really depends where you play. I play only in Officials and sometimes you get rolled by good players, and sometimes......there's something else.

I agree that bad players like me don't know what's possible, and that's a big issue. But....I've seen certain players totally erase randomness from their game. There's only one answer for that...!

For example, pub players are more likely to be in places they shouldn't be. I've seen guys clean out an entire area of people out of their FOV without a scan, and without the concept of 'pattern hunting.' I'm sure you know what that is...

So, I'm open minded to anyone that has a suggestion that will at least make us look at proof instead of accusation. I'm more than willing to concede my impressions may be totally wrong and therefore ONLY proof is valid.

One more caveat: Remember the saying "methinks thou dost protest too much" 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Keeping them honest - Fighting the war against dishonest
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:40 pm 
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Keebler_750 wrote:
For example, pub players are more likely to be in places they shouldn't be. I've seen guys clean out an entire area of people out of their FOV without a scan, and without the concept of 'pattern hunting.' I'm sure you know what that is...


No, actually, I don't. You have no idea what is going through a player's mind that leads to their decisions. Match after match "good players" are confronted by guys who believed they've figured them out based on the kind of subjective reasoning you've given throughout your post. That anyone is willing to accept something "different" (or success/luck as any reasonable person would put it) as proof of foul play is confusing.

Honestly, I play on ACI servers regularly and the same hackusations fly there as on the officials. My point? There is no such place where people don't mind losing to someone better than them, and there is no such thing as an anti-cheat that will alleviate the delusions of angry men.

Again, I support anti-cheat and improving anti-cheat. I don't support the super sleuth detectives who think they can eyeball cheaters- or to soften the language, players who are "different."

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