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 Post subject: Re: ...AAPG needs outdoor/wilderness maps like right?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:47 pm 
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Keebler_750 wrote:
That's very true. Playing those maps with buddies though, and it can be fun when people are communicating and covering each other.

I really wish I could twist some arms about the communications issues in AAPG. It is always funny how most people communicate AFTER they're dead.

:(


Because believe it or not most players just want to casually play this game. Then they die and are forced to communicate with their team to try desperately prevent being secured and forced top watch. Not everyone wants to treat this game like its a world cup final but you are forced to because you will either die from a grenade or killed by the 2 guys watching the door you're about to peek the whole round.

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 Post subject: Re: ...AAPG needs outdoor/wilderness maps like right?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:51 pm 
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Keebler_750 wrote:
Nah. The problem with Slums and Cold Front is that the sniper is OP. On the map I just designed, it's hard to hit anything because the distances are proper. The sniper needs movement penalties, IMO to make it make sense, so you can't just run around with it.


I disagree. The issue is that every central location is exposed to a slew of possible enemy spots and there's no decent way to move around. It makes plays like charging gung ho down an edge of the map too rewarding. It becomes less about smart rotation and strategy and more about getting behind the other team.

The M24 isn't a strong weapon in AAPG because of low movement penalties; it's a strong weapon because there are 1001 possible places it can be played from and players can't hope to check or counter them all.

Check out how players handle and counter the AWP on de_dust2 in CS. There are a limited number of places where it can be used effectively and players know where AWPers tend to be. That lets players develop strategies to counter the "standard" spots. To get around that, the other team can adapt in future rounds by playing from less optimal positions.

Imagine you want to defuse bomb on B site of dust2. Depending on where it's planted, you'll have a good idea for where that last T is likely to be. Regardless, there are only a handful of spots to check -- car, back plat, window, tunnel, double stack.

Now look at Y objective on Cold Front. Imagine the C4's planted and you want to defuse it. How many corners do you need to check? How many positions could that last player cover the site from? How can you hope to check both barn and belltower with the timer ticking down? It's just not possible and there are probably dozens of places from which a player could effectively guard the site.


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 Post subject: Re: ...AAPG needs outdoor/wilderness maps like right?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:54 pm 
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TheBadaBing! wrote:
You can't move anywhere in maps like that because there is far to many routes and camping spots so if you die you will never get revived by your team mates. They are either 30 yards out of spawn or they will see you dead but instead of making an effort to revive you they will just sit back and watching your body waiting for the person to come secure you.... baiting you for a kill.

This is one of many reasons inner hospital works better than those other maps in this inexperienced player player filled game because its so obvious where the routes are and where you're likely to be shot from people can easily weigh up the risks of reviving you.

Completely agree. The extra map complexity just creates more chances for a player to find a hole and get a round where he mows down 5 enemies from behind. I wonder if it's an intentional design choice to give players a random chance at amazing rounds.


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 Post subject: Re: ...AAPG needs outdoor/wilderness maps like right?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:55 pm 
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tis true, there are many outdoor maps available to play, but you gotta be willing to do two things.. have a server and a map with desired scenario (plenty of them in the workshop), then sit in that server hoping people will see it, subscribe, load up (possibly even crash with a timeout) and then play.

many hoops.. but players still want more maps? hmmm

to borrow a part quote from a film, "if you build it.."

nope, they never come :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: ...AAPG needs outdoor/wilderness maps like right?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:01 pm 
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I think there should be a separate topic that praises why inner hospital a good map for this game. Its nothing to do with it being indoors at all.... i feel its because its very light unlike most the other maps in this game and it has simple but well made routes. If someone could come up with an outdoor map but similar spacings and corner count to inner then it would be perfect.

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 Post subject: Re: ...AAPG needs outdoor/wilderness maps like right?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:02 pm 
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Actually, as I'm learning about map design, and being an analyst by nature, I'm seeing the truth in what you're saying BCPull ...but....I also notice that there is a huge lack of counter-sniper tactics or team timing in AAPG...ie get the team to properly clear a zone before some other action is taken. It's a mess.

The lack of movement penalties allow the M24 to be in places it shouldn't be. I don't think I'm wrong on that count.


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 Post subject: Re: ...AAPG needs outdoor/wilderness maps like right?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:09 pm 
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The sniper is what its suppose to be it has to be so high powered so just like in real life you aren't going to run across the street if you know that there is a sniper watching that alley...

And yes there needs to be more wooded maps that would make it much more interesting in how you can blend in with the environment...


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 Post subject: Re: ...AAPG needs outdoor/wilderness maps like right?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:10 pm 
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Keebler_750 wrote:
The lack of movement penalties allow the M24 to be in places it shouldn't be. I don't think I'm wrong on that count.


This is the realism side of you talking. As long as the M4 currently has a decent chance of destroying a sniper that has got too close then its fine. Most of the time people moan about the M24 because they didn't check the corner before walking around it. Its not like people are sliding out of darkroom with it and destroying the whole corridor like the SAW can.

Why does no one ever moan about the elderly rambos running around a hospital with a SAW? I thought the correct usage was in supported and proned position. That is not realistic right? Oh yeah because that is the gun of choice by the realism folk so they wouldn't want their own gun nerfed :D

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 Post subject: Re: ...AAPG needs outdoor/wilderness maps like right?
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:51 pm 
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Keebler_750 wrote:
That's very true. Playing those maps with buddies though, and it can be fun when people are communicating and covering each other.

I really wish I could twist some arms about the communications issues in AAPG. It is always funny how most people communicate AFTER they're dead.

:(


Being new too AA:PG I find myself doing this quite often... But I am trying to break that habit? I really don't see how it could be an easier.

As for "non-man-made" map's, I would like to see some and try some for sure! But it's all about the creator and testers working together to perfect the cover, distances, sniper positions and so on!

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 Post subject: Re: ...AAPG needs outdoor/wilderness maps like right?
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:22 am 
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Open maps actually tend to have few available routes and places to hide by the very fact that covelr is scarce. I guess probing in bushes and trees can be the bad thing about it. Done right, outdoor maps can be great.

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